New Podcast- Episode 1 with Siobhan of St. Tola & her journey as a producer facing Irish food fraud and championing Irish food heroes

Podcast Transcript: Irish Food Fraud & Irish Food Heroes (Part 1)

Hosts: Tracie Daly (The Food Business Coach)

Guest: Siobhán Ní Ghairbhith (Founder & Producer, St. Tola Goat’s Cheese)

Link to listen to the podcast: https://open.spotify.com/episode/7oQhdtZEcGt7uXOsqzIPE7?si=amxXhT2MQgyHfLydPcSQAQ&utm_source=copy-link

The Queen- Siobhan of St.Tola

Tracie Daly: And lift off! It gives me immense pleasure to be on this podcast, which I have named Irish Food Fraud and Irish Food Heroes—because we can't have one without the other.

And I have somebody very special indeed. Have you heard of St. Tola Goat's Cheese? For over two decades, Siobhán has been the fierce guardian of one of Ireland's most iconic culinary treasures. Handcrafted on her family land in County Clare, St. Tola is not just food; it's a masterclass in raw passion, deep land heritage, and uncompromising standards.

Siobhán has built an internationally acclaimed powerhouse that has swept virtually every major award worth winning—from World Cheese Award triumphs, Supreme Gold accolades at Blas na hÉireann, and the Great Taste Awards, to the Euro-Toques Food Producer Award and the RAI Local Food Hero honor. Yet, behind this wall of accolades lies a relentless fight against an industry that too often praises artisan makers on paper while squeezing them to the bone behind closed doors.

Siobhán, thank you so much for being here this morning. I know how flippin' busy you are. How are you?

Siobhán Ní Ghairbhith: Hi, Tracie! I squeezed it in, but if I can't give a few minutes to talk to you, life is not worth living!

Tracie: You're some woman with a great sense of humor! That's why you are loved. Because behind the passion, you need humor in this business. Would you agree?

Siobhán: Oh, very much so. If you can't see the fun and laugh, you'd go mad. You really would. It's hard work, Tracie. I mean, hard work for us producers, but it's also hard work for our customers. As I've said to you before, you'd have to be half-mad to do it! It's about passion and seeing the funny side of life. Even though we have a very serious topic today, we have to have the balance.

Tracie: Because if we sit too long in a negative space, by Jesus, it will bring us down!

Siobhán: No, negativity just doesn't do anybody any good. You have to be positive. Because if you aren't positive, it drags you down, it drags your team down, and it drags everybody around you down. You have to be positive, and that makes you stronger. It means when you fall down, you get back up again. You take the hard stuff with the good stuff. Because it's life.

Tracie: It is life. And resilience is a huge part of being self-employed, isn't it? Developing that resilience to get back up and understanding that falling is normal—that it's okay to face these hurdles. We haven't normalized that enough on the island of Ireland: that failure is actually one of the most successful things you can go through as a business owner.

Siobhán: I know. It's very hard for people to understand that concept, but it's only by failing that it strengthens you—if you learn from your failures. Some people find that hard, but you have to learn from them. It makes you stronger and more considerate about how you can get up and start again. It’s about keeping a cool head, learning from the experience, and moving on. I’ve yet to meet a person who hasn't failed in something. The important thing is to admit it. Admit that you failed. Don't try and cover it up or say, "Oh no, that didn't happen." Because honestly, from day one in my business, honesty has always been the best policy.

Tracie: I love it, because there's great integrity in admitting your fears and removing isolation. But we're here today because of a comment you made—and I love interacting with you on social media, Siobhán, because you have the best flippin' comments out there! You make me stop, listen, and gain a deeper understanding. We really deserve to understand further what it's like from an Irish producer's perspective, because I don't know that we've leaned enough into that space.

So, I'm going to read out your comment, and then we'll move into a couple of questions around food fraud.

Your comment was:

"This has been going on for decades. And unfortunately, to add insult to injury, some chefs are now questioning more and more the prices of genuine Irish crafts while running high-end restaurants. I've yet to meet an Irish artisan producer living a flashy lifestyle or making a fortune. We work every day, every hour. I can't afford to eat in high-end restaurants or stay in high-end hotels—only on a very rare blue moon, if at all. Genuine food cannot be produced cheaply, and it's only going to get more expensive to produce with climate change and the state the world is in now. Yes, we plough on as we believe in producing healthy, natural foods for the greater good."

Siobhán, that comment comes straight from the heart.

Siobhán: It did, Tracie. To be honest, I don't often comment on social media because once you comment, you can get embroiled in a whole lot of debate. But when I saw your post, I was outraged. It wasn't quite a knee-jerk reaction, but I thought, "It's good to vent every so often and call a spade a spade." Sometimes being brutally honest is what you have to do. Being a small producer in Ireland at the moment is actually very, very challenging. It needs to be spoken about, and we need to let our feelings be known to our customers and to the public in general.

Tracie: What does that look like behind the scenes? Customers don't always get those insights. Now is the time to allow our customer base and prospective customers to understand what that actually means on the ground.

Siobhán: I totally appreciate that, Tracie. Every time I sell, I say to my team: "Think of the customer." One of the things I learned at the very start—even before St. Tola, when I used to make food hampers—was to always think of the customer. And I know my customers are going through a lot of the same challenges that we Irish food producers are going through.

To be honest, nobody has had a break. It has gone from one economic crisis to another. Our costs are going up and up. I'm 27 years at St. Tola—I know my business so well. I've looked at every aspect to see where I can refine it and reduce costs so I can charge a fair price. But there are all these factors outside our control—economic factors, government decisions around employees, wages, and pensions.

I have a fantastic crew. My core team of 16 have been with me for more than 15 years each, which says a lot about my team. But for small business owners—including independent shop owners and chefs running their own businesses—they are going through the exact same thing as I am. The government isn't taking us seriously enough; we're being treated the same as large multinationals, and we're just not the same. If this continues, small producers, growers, and independent restaurants are just going to be squeezed out, leaving only multi-chains.

I got an email from a customer the other day—a chef I’ve never met in person. He revealed his menu and said using my cheese was too expensive—he actually quoted a price higher than what I charge him! He felt I hadn't done anything for him, like offering to reduce his costs. I had to just give him the facts. I said, "I haven't increased my prices in three years."

And when I get a message like that, I give them alternatives. For example, I brought out my St. Tola Divine cream cheese, which I can produce at a lower price point, to give him a choice. I'm always thinking about my customer. When I go into kitchens during local deliveries, I’m cheeky—I’ll walk right into the kitchen to say hi to the chef and thank them profusely for using my cheese. To me, it's always been about communication and building a relationship.

If I were just a cutthroat businesswoman, I wouldn't be where I am today. I’d be operating out of a giant factory as opposed to a cheese house on my family farm. Getting bigger was never my goal—my passion was doing something with our 60-acre farm in rural North Clare, providing quality, and bringing my customers along with me. It’s a communication piece. But unfortunately, small producers and small restaurants often don't have the time to have those deep communications.

That's why I network in organizations like the Restaurants Association of Ireland, because it gives me an opportunity to meet groups of chefs face-to-face. Finding the time to explain and justify what you're doing is crucial, but sometimes it can be exhausting. You think, "How many more times do I have to explain this? How many more accolades do we have to win for people to actually get it?" But it's important because there is so much information out there now that things get lost.

Tracie: It’s paramount that continuous communication is there, especially in the digital age. Getting to know the individual behind the brand is critical—if we don't know the person, we don't purchase from them. Your networking is so powerful, but it's an exhausting element of your business. You give back so heavily and invest in these organizations.

Siobhán: Yes, well, that's the way we were raised. It was instilled in us by our parents: a sense of community, giving to others, and sharing education.

I enjoy the networking because I'm a social being. About four weeks ago, my social media account was hacked and I couldn't get on it for three weeks. At first I panicked, but after a couple of days... I felt a sense of relief! It gave me extra time in my life! We were talking just recently about Dolly Parton—she was so inspirational, not just in her career, but in how much wisdom and support she gave. One of her famous quotes that I keep on my board is: "Don't get so busy making a living that you forget to make a life." That really came home to me when I was off social media.

I really believe in face-to-face first and foremost. That’s why I love going to gatherings—talking to people in person reinvigorates you. It gives you a real understanding of what’s happening out there in the industry.

Tracie: That human connection is so powerful. As a consumer, I will purchase more Irish products if I’ve met the maker. I’m invested in them, their story, and their family.

Now, if we dive into the world of food fraud: somebody got in touch with me recently to say they left a food business because the owner demanded that an Irish artisan cheese be diluted—10% from the Irish producer and 90% generic filler. It was the straw that broke the camel's back for that chef. They couldn't stand over a lie printed on the menu.

As a producer, is this an issue you come across, and how does it make you feel?

Siobhán: Unfortunately, I do come across this, and I have since a very early stage in my business.

Recently, there were three different incidents. In one case, a chef was actually mixing our cheese with flour! Can you imagine? Mixing goat's cheese with flour! My family was dining in the restaurant and said, "There’s something wrong here." It's disheartening, demoralizing, and disappointing.

Another instance—which happens so commonly with signature products—is having your name on the menu when it’s not your product being served. I am continually getting sent photographs from people saying, "Siobhan, is this your cheese? It doesn't look like your cheese to me." Or I’ll see a chef post a photo of a "St. Tola dish" on social media, and I know straight away looking at the rind and texture that it isn't my cheese.

Now, every time I see that, I get straight onto the restaurant and the chef. I direct message them or email the establishment. I did that three times over the summer and said, "Look, this is not my cheese. I can understand if you ran out, but please explain why this happened."

To be fair, once they are called out, they come back with excuses: "Oh, the menus were printed and we couldn't get the product that day," or "The hotel supplier didn't deliver." And I tell them, "I understand if you don't rewrite menus every day, but then your front-of-house staff must be informed to tell the diner: 'Actually, it’s not St. Tola today because we couldn't source it.'"

My product's reputation is being demeaned. If a customer eats something diluted with flour or substituted with an inferior cheese, and it’s their first time tasting "St. Tola," they think that poor quality is what my cheese tastes like. It does my reputation no good.

I call it out when I can, but I never name and shame publicly on social media. I always give the chef or restaurateur the opportunity to explain. Some have offered me a free night in their hotel or a meal in their restaurant to make up for it.

Tracie: Do you take them up on that offer? It’s an amazing offer in one way, but feels insulting in another!

Siobhán: I haven't taken any of them up on it because I simply haven't had the time! But if it gives me an opportunity to talk to them face-to-face and meet them, I appreciate that. Both people who made those offers were professional when caught out; they asked for my phone number and called me directly to resolve it. High-end restaurants and hotels have reputations to uphold, and they need to stand over them. The school teacher in me returns at times, and I say, "Pull up your socks, or I'm going to punish you!"

Tracie: It used to be that national headlines were made when food establishments lied about provenance, but that hasn't happened in over a decade. We’ve forgotten that this is happening every day. In your 27 years, what types of chef personalities do you come across from a values perspective?

Siobhán: It’s so varied. St. Tola isn't just in fine-dining restaurants—and I never wanted it to only be in high-end places. I want my cheese available to the hardworking person, the single mom, everybody—adding value and healthy, natural food to their lives.

When it comes to chefs, you have a wide variety. You have some chefs with huge egos. I find them hard to deal with, but I try to communicate with them respectfully regardless of whether they are a three-star Michelin chef or a young trainee.

I gave a young trainee chef a lift into town the other day, and hearing his enthusiasm for his course made me so happy. You have to be passionate to be a chef nowadays because of the grueling hours. I’ve always been in awe of chefs. I have to mention Chef David McCann from Dromoland Castle, who retired this year after over 25 years. I have never experienced a calmer chef or a calmer kitchen in my life. He always made time to talk to producers when we walked in the back door. I judge a head chef by the atmosphere of their kitchen team.

Tracie: Ego in the kitchen is usually based on fear, and when it comes out in a negative manner, it’s a hard space to be in. But hearing about chefs who take the time to talk to producers is amazing. Then on the flip side, you have the chef who emailed you this week, lambasting you and claiming you don't do enough for them—when a five-minute phone call would have shown them that you haven't raised your prices in three years!

Siobhán: Exactly. People don't pick up the phone anymore! Text messages, WhatsApps, and emails lack tone and context. That’s why real conversations—even over the phone—are so much better. I could see it was late in the evening when he emailed; he had probably worked a brutal shift and was stressed trying to figure out his autumn menu margins. I try to be understanding. There was clearly a misunderstanding around pricing and ordering efficiencies. Taking a couple of minutes to talk to someone shows basic respect.

I love going in the back door of kitchens because we are all part of the same food community. I remind my team all the time: "Think about the journey of the cheese." It leaves our farm looking beautiful, but it travels for days, sits in a wholesaler's van, and then in a restaurant cold room. We have to ensure it’s being stored and treated correctly so that when the chef opens it for service, it tastes exquisite.

Tracie: There is a massive educational piece required there—teaching kitchens how to store, treat, and respect a live, fresh artisan product.

Siobhán: Absolutely. If a chef or owner goes to the trouble of paying more for an artisan product like St. Tola, they must train their front-of-house and kitchen teams on the story. As a diner, I love the story! If I'm spending money, I want to know where the food comes from.

I was served recently by a young 20-year-old waitress who knew the menu inside out—the producers, the seasonality, everything. It blew my mind! When restaurants forget that training piece, hospitality degrades into just "fast speed."

Tracie: Education and upskilling are everything.

Siobhán: Repeat customers are the most important part of any business. I’ve grown my business over 27 years not just by finding new customers, but by developing new products for my existing ones. Because I come from a teaching background—three generations of teachers—education is in my blood.

When young staff do a great job, praise them! It makes them walk taller. We need to encourage young people in this industry.

Tracie: Can you take a moment right now to educate chefs on why diluting an Irish artisan product—or misrepresenting it—is absolute blasphemy?

Siobhán: If chefs want to understand why making the right choice matters, they need to look at our process and see how passionate we are.

Think of an intricate dessert you make in your kitchen—the tweezers, the detail, the hours of effort. That is what we put into every wheel of cheese. When you water down our product or substitute it with cheap filler, you might as well just buy a frozen, mass-produced goat's cheese tart from a box and shove it in the oven.

Imagine if someone did that to your dish! Or imagine if a customer came into your restaurant, ate a multi-course meal, walked out without paying, and made you chase them for three months. Imagine how that feels!

A well-established producer said to me when I started: "Choose your customers carefully, and give only one chance." I have bills to pay, staff to pay, and farm infrastructure to invest in. I need to be paid in a timely fashion.

We need a national focus on food security and fair pricing in Ireland. We are an agricultural country relying heavily on imported, ultra-processed foods. If we don't support genuine local producers, there will come a time when we won't have real food available.

Tracie: You’re so right. The power of this conversation is showing producers that we will not accept menu fraud or price-bullying. Siobhán has shown us the bravery, boldness, and respect required to call it out directly, ear-to-ear, and fix the issue at the top before taking it further.

Siobhán: After 27 years in business, I’ve strengthened those muscles. I’m not afraid to speak out because I have absolute confidence in my brand and my team.

To chefs who are under budget constraints, I say: Less is more. Use a smaller portion! Adjust the dish! Talk to us! Communication is key. We have worked too hard for too long to be walked over.

Tracie: What an incredible message. If you’re an Irish producer listening: be proud, remove isolation, and lean into your conviction. Siobhán has given us the ultimate blueprint today—from portion control and product selection to front-of-house education.

When a chef puts St. Tola on their menu, they aren't just getting cheese—they are getting 27 years of passion, world-class accolades, and uncompromising integrity.

Siobhán: And remember to involve your team! You can't be a leader without a great team behind you. My core team has been with me for over 15 years, and even seasonal workers need to be brought along on the journey so there are no weak links.

And above all, Tracie—have fun! You have to see the fun and have a laugh. Next week, we’re actually walking two of our goats on leashes in front of a parade for a local event with brass bands and everything! We're trying to train the goats to walk on a lead right now. You have to shake things up and laugh, because if you can't laugh, what’s the point?

Tracie: What's the fucking point, Siobhán! You are an absolute legend. Thank you so much for your precious time, your wisdom, and for fighting the good fight for Irish food. Keep being extraordinary!

Siobhán: Thank you so much, Tracie!

If you are ready to have a fabulous heartfelt chat on teh state of Irish food and hospitality with a serious pinch of praise for those that are doing tremendous work then email me today tracie@traciedaly.com

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